00:00:00: The biggest misconceptions, the fact that people don't believe we're doing what were doing.

00:00:05: They think it's fake.

00:00:07: When we told everyone second We didn't start saying first until we were first.

00:00:13: If anything was different then we would be liars Neil McLean!

00:00:22: Hello How are you?

00:00:24: Good mate You?

00:00:25: Very good Excited

00:00:26: to be here.

00:00:27: I'm excited too, it's the first time five and a half years that i've managed to get you on camera.

00:00:32: You know every time I go away into a podcast its oh Calum how come YOU get to do another one?

00:00:36: And im left here running this business making in at most successful place possible!

00:00:43: So finally we're getting you some glory.

00:00:46: Well thank you very much ,you.

00:00:47: now Im the face of company so not always been something ive been striving for.

00:00:53: five and a half years later, so I guess we'll get into it.

00:00:56: And i think its important.

00:00:57: you know these questions...I said to ya what question do you want be asked?

00:01:01: because I want your talk about things that are passionate about?

00:01:03: You were just like anything to do with what we're doing is passionate about.

00:01:06: So..i've put down what people would like hear and will work our way through it.

00:01:10: As I said We now have business inside out.

00:01:14: Don't need to prep for it, you shoot

00:01:16: It's all we talked about anyway Exactly!

00:01:18: You been with the company Since day one, I mean you are technically apart from the eight brokers who came across.

00:01:25: You're the first manager-first salaried employee First person that was not just a broker in business.

00:01:32: What were early days like?

00:01:35: Really good question.

00:01:36: The early days were so much fun Like they really were because it was like really stripped back basics And we'd probably get more into this every time We talk about people who may be struggling.

00:01:53: It's just pure basics, you know?

00:01:55: If we think back to those days it was just militant call-outs... Just raw basics which got us where we are and the thing that really glues us together because.. ..we didn't go reinvent the wheel at all!

00:02:17: Absolutely not.

00:02:19: do everything and just do it better.

00:02:24: You talk about a lot in all of your training, you know?

00:02:28: It's people often look for new rather than doing better first and foremost.

00:02:34: And we go back to those early days, eight of us in the fifteen thousand square foot office I've heard this over again with tiny little speaker

00:02:46: Our little saunas in the middle of the floor that Rishan used to have to take home, charge every night.

00:02:50: Exactly

00:02:51: and The energy was great even though it echoed a lot but you know In there But It Was Basics And Everyone Wanted To Be There.

00:03:01: I'm Sure People Have Heard The Stories Over Again No Doors, no AC.

00:03:06: We Knew What Was Going On.

00:03:08: Much Like In All Difficult Situations We've Been In create a positive environment and go for it.

00:03:14: And we set the narrative.

00:03:16: at the end of that's what gets got us to this point, really?

00:03:19: I mean jumping from five years ago, five-and-a-half years ago seeing where were now five and half years later biggest Western agency in Dubai.

00:03:26: number one four leads Number One For The Mount Of Transactions Done.

00:03:30: Number One Four The Value Of Property Sold And Easily One Of The Strongest Teams In Dubai.

00:03:35: Are You Surprised?

00:03:40: No!

00:03:40: At all.

00:03:41: Thank God you weren't just going to leave it with.

00:03:42: no

00:03:42: yeah No, that's not surprised and I'll go back to That.

00:03:49: first time i met You in control tower In a completely empty office when the First Time i've thought okay?

00:03:59: i mean he's A bit mental but like his visions are huge And i actually think He's gonna do It was When that statement when you went, look I'm going to make this the biggest and best real estate company in Dubai.

00:04:14: It's gonna be the Google of Real Estate here in Dubai And the visions you had at that point seemed wild.

00:04:22: but The plan was in place right?

00:04:25: And...I wanted it involved in.

00:04:27: there You are... I wanna blow too much like this is about me not you But you know, your passion and vision for it.

00:04:37: And your relentless approach to it... You know people need to meet you to really understand that When do like get on board?

00:04:44: So am I surprised?

00:04:46: no because we're not where were planning be so Like

00:04:52: mean you are never happy.

00:04:53: yeah

00:04:54: It's a tough company working honestly We walk into management meetings me and Neil.

00:04:58: People are like here come more targets.

00:05:00: but So this isn't a question I've got written down, but would you say that's rubbed off on you?

00:05:07: Because I can certainly see it since i met you.

00:05:09: A lot of the way that you work rubbed-off me and we found ourselves at middle ground.

00:05:15: really where in the beginning if you'd have left to make every decision first there'll be no money in the company And then If had left YOU to make your decisions There will be things we wouldn't have missed out on.

00:05:26: Would you agree?

00:05:27: Absolutely I mean, we've had more arguments than anyone can sort of imagine.

00:05:33: Right?

00:05:35: And it is because we did come from polar opposites, you know, corpora versus broker right?

00:05:41: Polar opposites

00:05:43: and

00:05:44: the explanation of reasons that you gave me just made me totally switch my approach to a lot of things.

00:05:54: It's given example on leads coming in and it's whoever first has on the CRM for example.

00:06:02: This is what other companies do?

00:06:03: Yeah,

00:06:04: you know... And It's the easiest way to manage a CRM & Manage A company.

00:06:08: absolutely but its not best for The Broker

00:06:11: right?

00:06:12: Yea yea

00:06:12: yea And was that same argument we always had?

00:06:15: ok But if your a broker how would YOU feel about

00:06:18: that?

00:06:18: Yea Yea

00:06:19: And it ALWAYS stays with me.

00:06:21: then its passed down through because I have to be doing this new management that come thru when We have these same challenges.

00:06:29: You know, we've found this middle ground which is you know phenomenal.

00:06:34: if it had been just me running here would probably wouldn't take a fifteen thousand square foot office.

00:06:39: Would probably be a quarter of the size and Be very sort of conservative through the approach right?

00:06:46: Don't sell yourself short That's true but don't sell yourselves

00:06:49: short.

00:06:52: But having that vision... We take on people when the right people came along, even though we didn't need them now.

00:07:00: So it's that whole approach to it which has enabled us accelerate through growth patterns and general development whether in training or new management.

00:07:16: what have you?

00:07:17: It is kind of a vision.

00:07:22: budget-wise it's going to stretch us, but big deep now and we will be further ahead.

00:07:28: We'll reap the benefits if we're prepared!

00:07:30: So yeah you know I've loved the fact that we've challenged each other through that whole process of being slightly sort of polar opposites in finding this middle ground And i think its been a healthy relationship

00:07:44: Absolutely for all times with Butted Heads.

00:07:45: there has never been more than ten minutes.

00:07:49: That's really annoyed me, you know what I mean?

00:07:50: It straight away.

00:07:50: it is like right well that the decision let us move on.

00:07:54: So we said never reinvented The Wheel which absolutely did not.

00:07:57: We just simply found a way to remove friction Which as a term i always liked use for brokers.

00:08:02: Our job was find out other companies do because so many of them actually quite well But make faster quicker more efficient easier for brokers.

00:08:10: What would be different from everyone else?

00:08:13: Sorry!

00:08:13: What could we do differently From Everyone Else

00:08:17: I think.

00:08:17: look at things differently.

00:08:19: You know, one hundred percent Leads for example.

00:08:26: volume is important like it negates luck.

00:08:29: So you know It's same with everything Like the more cause you make the lucky you get right?

00:08:34: so, you know The more people you speak to the more deals you do.

00:08:38: so as a company we We haven't done anything different.

00:08:42: We just look at it differently, right?

00:08:44: So volume of leads is is important and its are considered engineered approach on how to maximise that and generate the most volume of leads.

00:08:55: And there is a structure in a path involved, you know?

00:09:01: The consistency.

00:09:02: we do things I think... I talk about discipline but it stems from the top down, right?

00:09:10: We're always in the office early.

00:09:11: Always every day doing the same things over and over again whether it's meetings or approach to contact with brokers.

00:09:20: so being able do that consistently for last five years has got us at this point.

00:09:28: but I think companies look at it so simplistically rather than delving into the engineered approach of generating as many leads possible.

00:09:38: That's fundamentally, that start off cycle and is a considered approach to how we do that through discipline.

00:09:47: I just don't think other company necessarily looks in this way Because I'm slightly a boring person, we're the same clothes every day.

00:09:59: Do the same things over and over again... ...and just rinse-and repeat right?

00:10:04: And create that consistency.

00:10:06: Funnily enough We had meetings with both our associate directors.. ..and high performers through The Week.

00:10:12: What they all agree is the toughest thing in real estate is consistency.

00:10:17: But your boringness Is consistent.

00:10:20: or boringness means that we do the same thing and get good results because of compounds.

00:10:25: And I think more people could learn from not trying to reinvent wheel, just doing the boring.

00:10:31: but at a time like this it becomes consistent when things are consistent so is outcome which was found to be massive over compounding scale for past few years.

00:10:43: So yeah absolutely i completely agree with that.

00:10:48: the boring things, we just mix it up right.

00:10:54: Different things are done differently.

00:10:55: different incentives for this a random thing here or a random there smaller call outs bio-callouts.

00:11:01: you know all different approaches.

00:11:03: We're doing the same thing were packaging and delivering in another way.

00:11:07: suddenly its more exciting to do that.

00:11:11: you'll call and go, put a message out right.

00:11:13: I'm doing training tomorrow.

00:11:14: who wants to come along when you get loads of messages because your just decided to run a training session?

00:11:20: add up it's the same things being delivered but just from different voice.

00:11:26: how we package it is exciting cause we sit in there trying more exciting ways.

00:11:32: do boring basics.

00:11:34: i think for anyone watching whether you're broker or manager leader company owner We did a, not an experiment really but I had uh business owner over shadowing us for the best part of.

00:11:43: i think it was two weeks and he kind of asked if you remember Sean.

00:11:47: He asks like what is that?

00:11:48: You guys because we come in every morning at eight o'clock me you Neil or your Neil sorry me Neil Rick Poppy yeah were in that office And I said to Sean went ask us all separately What three things where attacking are not in the same room, so just catch us at different points and ask that question.

00:12:04: And all four of us said the exact same thing.

00:12:08: So I think we're so aligned on what were attacking.

00:12:10: it's not forty things you know.

00:12:12: It is three solid things.

00:12:14: once we are not closed down We'll get onto our next.

00:12:16: one means that we just know, right?

00:12:23: We need to conquer this.

00:12:23: then move on the next thing.

00:12:24: Yeah!

00:12:25: But don't add another thing and other things.

00:12:27: work out what's going get best leverage for our efforts.

00:12:30: And I think a great example of loads of Bay Awards there is like...we started off focusing on True Checks if you remember.

00:12:37: You know ages ago Poppy had that

00:12:38: sort of real- I can give away Lube Tons, I can go with iPhones.

00:12:42: it was nights away.

00:12:43: exactly.

00:12:45: True checks moved on to true brokers, moved onto the next and like in it.

00:12:48: And we knew where we wanted to get too.

00:12:50: but we had to strip it back and structure it differently an execute different aspects of that you know?

00:12:56: To create that volume of leads.

00:12:57: and that comes back to its always engineered approach In terms of what our end result wants to be.

00:13:02: It's not a case of let just getting more leads Let us put more products because thats going to give as many lead this month right?

00:13:08: Its organic building over a prolonged period time Because has to be sustainable because the consistency has to be sustainable.

00:13:17: That's a big one.

00:13:17: there is so many things in the past five and half years.

00:13:21: we've seen companies start to do, then within six months it drops off.

00:13:24: And I don't own other businesses that are not my prerogative.

00:13:28: but what Wight & Co started doing was open days ago.

00:13:31: We still do everything now.

00:13:33: The incentives were still in place, commissions as high the office is bigger and better than it's ever been, we still invest in The Brokers.

00:13:42: We've never pulled back on that whereas so many people have seen us do example.

00:13:46: all these incentives they do at first three four months then suddenly disappears.

00:13:49: yeah And a bad part about real estate is that brokers talk Yeah They'll say oh yeah they started doing that but suddenly thats disappeared because you have to want to Do It.

00:13:58: Definitely Its not keeping up with the Joneses You Have To Actually Want Give Back.

00:14:04: We've grown at an incredible speed, how have we managed to scale without completely losing control of the standards?

00:14:13: I made a point earlier where we've often recruited key people.

00:14:18: Earlier than we necessarily wanted too.

00:14:23: and also you know... We met people who grown through business as well which had gone on from trainers to sales directors who get what we're doing, right?

00:14:40: They just get it.

00:14:43: And how have we managed to maintain the standards?

00:14:46: is because of people coming through and helping us grow... Do you know?

00:14:51: there's going be a period where we are non-stop Saturday, Sundays answering supporting you know brokers getting deals done You know jumping in on Fridays doing training sessions.

00:15:04: You know everything like this because obviously we Don't necessarily have to be in the office on Friday.

00:15:10: So it's that ability to come in and help brokers And give those big pushes and then when we find more people to come and support We can then grow again.

00:15:21: so we do sort of get to a point where its Seriously busy, but you know people come through the ranks or You know we mean there's countless people who reach out reach out to you all The time wanting to join.

00:15:33: Um, you know.

00:15:33: Or able to bring in someone to help us then increase the support level.

00:15:39: and The beauty of our management team And the support that we give is the fact it is twenty four

00:15:49: seven much as

00:15:50: my wife hates it, but you know.

00:15:52: It is twenty-four seven

00:15:55: One of our associate directors.

00:15:57: You're going to know exactly what I'm talking about the a put in or company group chat at six thirty About two weeks ago.

00:16:03: are any directors available?

00:16:05: Think he got do now?

00:16:06: how can respond on a WhatsApp chat with the laughing faces and just explain?

00:16:09: anyone who doesn't Know that is thinking must have got hundred fifty people laughing at him Just on the fact It's six thirty.

00:16:16: Yeah, like my managers don't go to bed until first of all nine maybe ten o'clock but separately to that Like they're always available for you guys and That was what?

00:16:24: Was funny wasn't anyone going like?

00:16:26: oh yeah are the Available?

00:16:27: it was everyone laughing like What are you talking about?

00:16:29: because after five o' clock your job doesn't stop And we make that very clear to me.

00:16:33: one that joins us now as well.

00:16:34: You've always been like that.

00:16:35: There is a point where an I will blow smoke up your arse For now.

00:16:39: um But there was a point.

00:16:39: were in the beginning you didn't want to leave office till The last broker left which I always think was just something.

00:16:45: that's a testament to who you are as a person.

00:16:48: But now, any manager that joins the business anyone wants to be at high level with us You need understand there is no days off.

00:16:54: There IS NO Unless your asleep?

00:16:56: Your working.

00:16:57: If you're on holiday different story because thats your time.

00:16:59: switch of through the year but even then it never stops.

00:17:01: I know you go in holiday and next thing you know brokers still come into ya.

00:17:04: Yeah yeah And uh...but you care they do deals You care make money.

00:17:08: so therefore its not imonholiday Listen ImOnHoliday.

00:17:11: let me sort this for you but just so you don't maintain me a little bit longer.

00:17:14: And I think that's it, right?

00:17:15: It is the lifestyle.

00:17:16: Wine Coat Is A Lifestyle Right and because... You're not coming to work or doing your job right.

00:17:25: all of management are the same.

00:17:27: All-consuming Yeah!

00:17:29: But also like one key area everyone gets overrides in management roles.

00:17:42: feel you can look after someone else in somebody's team, right?

00:17:45: A lot of people don't understand that.

00:17:46: So I was speaking at Poppy about this two or three days ago and she said like is it okay to say this on the pot?

00:17:52: I went.

00:17:53: there's nothing.

00:17:53: we hide but will explain what do mean by a little bit off everyone.

00:17:58: so sales directors get paid off every single sales broker in their.

00:18:11: I'm not available and then they go to Poppy.

00:18:14: It's not like Poppy is helping that broker, And iIm the only one who gets paid off of that broker.

00:18:21: But for us it enables us to help every broker right?

00:18:26: We support everyone whether you're underperforming or need more help.

00:18:32: Candice did a training session first guys in my team because Candace has an ability You know, is far greater than mine.

00:18:40: Right?

00:18:41: I love training but when you get in front of Candice and training... ...you're just like wow!

00:18:46: Where he came into the office

00:18:47: last week.

00:18:47: He was like that.

00:18:49: train him from Candice.

00:18:51: Like yeah we know go to more of them exactly

00:18:54: so.

00:18:54: But she gets from that, right?

00:18:55: And when he does it.

00:18:56: That's the important aspect of it and I don't... You know however companies want to set themselves up but this is part like you're so more involved in every broker's journey and you wanna help because you get rewarded for at end-of-the day as well.

00:19:11: It

00:19:12: eliminates that part where some company a manager will have to deal with another broker who not on their team.

00:19:18: they go and help them close a deal.

00:19:19: then suddenly money goes into an other managers pocket whereas that went in Co Neil helps Poppy's team or Poppy helps Niohs' team, or Candice helps Robbs.

00:19:27: Or anyone around.

00:19:28: we're all seeing that going at the same pot and everyone is gonna get a bit of it which I think is a big bonus.

00:19:35: Which when you look into that because i don't...I think thats not normal across any brokerages.

00:19:40: I couldn't name one where they are just paid on their team Because obviously the only person who loses here Is White & Co as in me But..i dont lose because if we're generating more deals than anyone else, we are doing higher transaction levels.

00:19:54: So really there's no loss to me.

00:19:58: White & Co has a reputation of being intense and high performance.

00:20:02: that fair?

00:20:03: And what does high-performance actually mean inside the business?

00:20:06: would you agree with got that reputation?

00:20:11: My issue is I don't know anything outside of white & co not on social media.

00:20:18: I don't necessarily have too many opinions on other companies and what

00:20:23: they do.

00:20:23: You've ran other businesses in Dubai, yeah?

00:20:25: And you've run other sales teams.

00:20:27: Yep Would say this is intense high performance versus those.

00:20:32: Yeah we... Intense yes But it's a balanced intenseness right?

00:20:37: It's in focused mornings.

00:20:40: absolutely go for it.

00:20:42: When you're putting money on the board, I don't mind where you are in the afternoon.

00:20:47: Hopefully your out doing viewing.

00:20:49: but if You know it's that balance of yes work hard when we're in The office and is intense And yeah We were always walking around then If you not working?

00:21:00: Yeah i'm gonna look at you In a Not great way right because I have a grumpy face most Of time.

00:21:05: so its kind of yet intenseness needs to be there Because That Is part of High Performing.

00:21:12: We are a high-performing office and it's great to see because competition is absolutely, like... It's furious out there.

00:21:20: The arguments that people have about not being on the board you know?

00:21:23: Being ten grand less than someone else And they're doing absolutely everything to go beat that person!

00:21:29: It's relentless and its healthy competition.

00:21:32: I don't think in a sales role.

00:21:35: If you're not competitive, You are in the wrong industry.

00:21:37: Absolutely I agree

00:21:38: First and foremost.

00:21:40: But that high performance comes from The intensity of work we do And the discipline We put into it.

00:21:46: It will

00:21:48: be very difficult for us as management to get any level Of intensity if were just sitting around doing nothing.

00:21:54: So i suppose it trickles down Absolutely,

00:21:56: but it's also set from the brokers as well.

00:21:58: There are some days when you get bogged down for meetings and then come out It is eleven o'clock and the floor is absolutely pumping like people just on there...

00:22:08: Not us lifting them up.

00:22:09: sometimes its them that lift us up.

00:22:11: You know what?

00:22:11: thats a great point.

00:22:14: Talking back about my other favourite person that not you Alex Hormozzi he said something I love As much of word.

00:22:20: intensity.

00:22:20: good But we solve alot problems in company And i don't mean this was fist fighting But with violence, just pure and utter relentless pushing at something until we get there.

00:22:30: And I think that's always a good way of thinking.

00:22:34: intensity is good but really it's just the case of brute force where you're going to make this happen... ...and i don't know if every broker works in same ways as that.. ..but for me or you sometimes its'a case.

00:22:43: so WE WILL MAKE THIS HAPPEN no matter what!

00:22:46: We've been someone who tells everyone we are gonna do this And I'm sure you guys all sit there going like, oh, Callum why are you saying we're gonna be this?

00:22:55: This and this.

00:22:55: But when we achieve it It's all of us that got is their yeah, I just add extra pressure.

00:23:02: Another brokerage copied our commission structure or market spender offices.

00:23:07: would they get the same result?

00:23:10: No no chance You can't.

00:23:14: I mean first of all does We haven't done hugely different from what other companies do anyway right and then not getting the same results?

00:23:23: The average company these days open and opens with a nice fancy office.

00:23:26: With the big market spend, yeah... ...with a lot of money saved.

00:23:30: I mean anyone that looks back at videos from our office.

00:23:32: in the beginning it was a grey shell.

00:23:34: Yeah!

00:23:34: I don't know how we hire people!

00:23:35: It's..the Big difference is And People talk about culture all the time How you generate?

00:23:45: How make culture?

00:23:47: You know its not really the management.

00:23:50: It is from the brokers themselves, like they generate the culture right and The incentives are nice to have.

00:23:58: I think it's important that you have those little milestones because its a tough job as it is.

00:24:04: You need little wins when going along with something to strive for.

00:24:08: So trying just take it...you need the culture there but you need the leadership who drives.

00:24:19: You know the meaning forward and the vision forward because anyone could stand in there and Repeat what you say.

00:24:28: But if they don't believe it Like, it's never gonna be executed well right?

00:24:33: And I think the management that we have in place is like i know We talk about all time.

00:24:40: Right but it is absolutely phenomenal.

00:24:43: The level this ridiculous yeah really does.

00:24:46: but everyone is so disciplined and relentless in their sort of personal approach to standards that I don't think you can replicate them.

00:25:00: because you don't have, it's a job for most people.

00:25:03: but as I said before this is just the lifestyle for us.

00:25:06: so i don't think that can ever replicate that environment which wasn't there at the beginning right?

00:25:12: Yeah of course absolutely.

00:25:13: and also through time we've been open.

00:25:14: There was small period or maybe like three months where culture was pretty shit.

00:25:18: yeah Like... We didn't know what went wrong.. We found out eventually But in the time There's something missing here and we fixed it, but... We've been

00:25:26: through different phases of growth.

00:25:27: You know?

00:25:28: We were a child adolescent.

00:25:29: Yeah!

00:25:31: We used to have these arguments about sort-of dress code…and all those sorts things you know And went through the adolescence stage The teenage years.

00:25:42: Now we're maturing as business As company.

00:25:46: I think that culture takes time To develop and go down wrong paths.

00:25:51: But then we're also not afraid to take risks, right?

00:25:53: And we are also not scared of going.

00:25:55: do you know what that is.

00:25:55: It's not worked like let us stop doing it and go down this route or yeah... That works for us as management but actually doesn't work for brokers.

00:26:05: so an example remember when I did the price brackets in Marina I think Oh yeah!

00:26:11: You know..it worked because we made more money in that area but didn't really work for the broker.

00:26:16: So its like.

00:26:18: We need to read on that side of

00:26:21: thing.

00:26:21: Too many people mistake culture with cult and I'm seeing too Many brokerages these days thinking that just cause you go for pints, And you like the People You work With means That The Culture is a Culture Of Winners or A Culture Of Performance.

00:26:36: It's a very big difference.

00:26:38: Example, for us to hire any broker we've ever hired I have never invited them for a drink or went on a run down Kite Beach with him and let go of the gym and made it all about that For me.

00:26:49: i want know about work.

00:26:50: That is bonus!

00:26:51: All this extra stuff is great.

00:26:53: We got fitness classes...all these sort of things.

00:26:56: But for people who fall in for managing director asking them to come down with us.

00:27:07: It's very different.

00:27:09: We even had people who joined us from another company that were like, oh as soon I leave everyone there is going to hate me and i'm like yeah...I hope no one in our company hates someone because they leave As long as you're leaving the right way.

00:27:18: doors always open And we are seeing a lot of people booming around back.

00:27:21: What was the biggest misconception?

00:27:25: Again I know don't much about the outer world outside White & Co which has always been a bonus for me.

00:27:33: You know, you bump into people.

00:27:34: You know other managers from other companies who've seen other people...you're not completely blind to that.

00:27:42: What's the biggest misconception people outside White & Co have about why we are successful?

00:27:52: The biggest misconceptions of fact is People don't believe what they do.

00:28:01: They think it's fake.

00:28:04: They don't believe it's real.

00:28:06: So that is always the sort of, I do not understand why people because if other companies produced their figures and believed what they put up as well...

00:28:16: It would be very difficult.

00:28:18: we know what brokers are like in market.

00:28:19: If we were putting fake figures, the broker will tell everyone its fake figures?

00:28:23: Yeah!

00:28:23: And another company which has happened in past or put fake figures have had brokers just count all their deals and go oh they told us it was twelve million.

00:28:29: we just counted them eight.

00:28:31: yeah you know i mean so I don't know why Whitingcore would have suddenly that level of trust with every broker in there.

00:28:36: I'm sure they all enjoy it.

00:28:37: where we are, yeah but There's only so long you can hide things.

00:28:41: At what point do think people will believe What were doing?

00:28:43: considering now?

00:28:44: We've had the both portals.

00:28:46: Yeah Now agree With what we're saying because i'm not stupid to either and i am everywhere.

00:28:51: i'm very nosy.

00:28:52: i Know that companies Have full meetings with their entire sales team say Don't worry about what whiting core putting out.

00:28:57: You know That's all fake.

00:28:58: we Do more deals we make More money we're better than them and it's all fine to say, but suddenly when the portals start showing everyone information.

00:29:07: And that backs up what we've been saying at one point do people just go first of all oh its true?

00:29:12: Then secondly you turn around look at a company your working.

00:29:14: for why are they lying?

00:29:16: because if were second then we told them we're second.

00:29:18: When third we said we weren't third We didn't start until we were first If we were saying anything different than we would be liars.

00:29:26: I think think people look at their own businesses through rose-tinted glasses, right?

00:29:33: And I think they often believe what they're saying rather than trying to fix or get better themselves.

00:29:42: They're looking at the competition which is great to look at.

00:29:44: don't get me wrong you know absolutely.

00:29:46: keep an eye on what they are doing.

00:29:48: how can we do better?

00:29:49: because it's a competition.

00:29:51: everyone out there wants to be number one And I think it's a case of stripping back your own business as understanding.

00:29:58: how can we get better?

00:30:00: and i don't think people necessarily want to publicly say that, which I understand.

00:30:04: You're an anomaly!

00:30:06: I-I don't know many people who are happy to go and say We've done this wrong or... ...we're not good enough here.. ..we only third with fourth.

00:30:12: you know when use.... I can't remember what was used in there and going.

00:30:15: number two now by March were gonna be or whatever is made will be number one.

00:30:20: Here we go again, I may as well cancel that holiday and just get back in the office.

00:30:27: A plan

00:30:27: worked!

00:30:30: But it's not everyone is transparent to say yeah... ...we're NOT doing this well here but we are going to be better.

00:30:36: That comes from- And you know this for anyone who doesn't like.. ..I opened a brokerage because i was sick of being lied too.

00:30:42: So im not gonna open up a brokerages now lie to everybody else.

00:30:45: Like if anybody remembers about two and half years ago I put out a full video talking every penny.

00:30:51: Yep.

00:30:52: I'm not going to now start lying about the leads we get, the deals do anything like that.

00:30:57: So i guess The biggest misconception is people just don't want believe it.

00:31:01: They dont wanna

00:31:01: believe it?

00:31:02: I think if you Believe It then what your doing seems really underwhelming.

00:31:07: Yes

00:31:07: And thats a shame

00:31:08: But You dont need To Talk About That Person.

00:31:11: You Just Need Go Right.

00:31:12: What Do We Need To Do Better Like Its Exactly What what we would do and what

00:31:17: we have done for years.

00:31:18: You know, it is What can We Do Better?

00:31:20: And how do we go about achieving this goal that we need to get too?

00:31:26: And we need a you Know engineer it to get there and It's not something That Can be bought with premiums and and you know signatures overnight To generate those lead levels.

00:31:37: right marketing spend Is great and it gets you A certain but unless you've trained the brokers well to educate the sellers, get their prices on at a right price.

00:31:48: Efforts versus results?

00:31:49: Yes!

00:31:50: Your favourite

00:31:50: saying?!

00:31:53: Do most underperforming brokers lack skill or do they just not work hard enough?

00:32:01: A combination of both.

00:32:03: if some don't work hard and after seeing plenty super talented people just get caught up in Dubai and Dubai lifestyle, what it can offer you.

00:32:15: And gets sucked into that side of things but have the ability to absolutely turn on and smash it.

00:32:23: so there are those types of people But a lot of people who lack their skill often not through their own fault It's due to the lack training.

00:32:34: Training is one thing and like, you know a lot of companies that you do weeks training or two-weeks training whatever.

00:32:39: And that's it right off.

00:32:40: You go you've done your training Right now Europe Now you're a broker?

00:32:44: All right We did training ourselves I you we get us into doing training in management and no Yeah, we constantly looking to develop ourselves.

00:32:53: you go after America every year and spend You know fifty thousand dollars.

00:32:57: just uh going on a training course.

00:32:59: so then come back and like push us even further and develop everything on that side of things.

00:33:05: And I think it's important.

00:33:06: we do weekly training because you've got to go over, then execute it Then be held accountable for the training.

00:33:18: So its this constant cycle That sort of you know messy analogy, right?

00:33:31: He at the end of every training session probably hits You know a hundred free kicks.

00:33:36: You know A day to make sure that one opportunity he gets To execute a free kick on The pitch on a Saturday is gonna be the best free-kick he can hit.

00:33:48: so

00:33:49: as a broker Those hundred calls you make yeah through those people will prepare you for when that call comes in and you will have your answers ready, your rebuttals ready.

00:33:58: Your objection handling ready.

00:34:00: You'll actually just be less rusty on the phone Exactly Because it's a skill that you lose.

00:34:05: And so many brokers become better and better brokers.

00:34:07: But then they start losing their basics.

00:34:09: Yep

00:34:10: It's the training aspect.

00:34:11: The calls are not there necessarily to win an instruction, get a buyer out on viewings.

00:34:18: it is to develop your skill set of qualifying a buyer and understand what their problems are how I can solve issues that you have You know?

00:34:26: And the more you do this slicker become natural.

00:34:29: you become.

00:34:31: therefore knowledge enhances.

00:34:34: So if you just flip what training actually means executing you know, those calls consistently.

00:34:42: You develop your skill set and it's really important.

00:34:45: And why are our brokers becoming more successful?

00:34:50: is just the training that we consistently

00:34:53: do

00:34:54: and actually

00:34:54: compounds Yeah

00:34:55: but its from different people as well.

00:34:59: It was me, you, Poppy, Candice.

00:35:03: We all trained on a module and picked ones which were most passionate about and then it meant that, you know we were enjoying what we're training.

00:35:09: The brokers are picking up from someone who was finding their favourite part to train on.

00:35:13: Yeah

00:35:14: And

00:35:14: I think each day they did that.

00:35:16: It's Thursdays when we do a four in a row.

00:35:19: So we split the teams into, for example, Neil's team, Poppy's team Candice's Team Rob's team.

00:35:23: We did same with Leeson.

00:35:24: Yep Again whether or not the broker noticed this revenue has again increased.

00:35:29: Yep This is all through conflict All throughout this period

00:35:36: And then followed up with little call-out sessions and everything that would just

00:35:39: constantly boom,

00:35:40: boom.

00:35:40: I'm putting it into play right?

00:35:42: Absolutely If you had to choose between an incredibly talented broker who is difficult to manage An average broker but they do everything.

00:35:51: asked of them Who are you taking?

00:35:52: let me put a figure on this because someone might be like oh Average at my business as this Talented in My Business As This Let's Just Say Talented For Us Is Our Minimum As An Associate Director Three Million.

00:36:02: Yeah An Average.

00:36:03: Lets Just Say One Point Two What Would You Rather Have?

00:36:07: I would rather have the talented person who's difficult to manage.

00:36:12: Agreed?

00:36:14: Because... ...I often believe that super-talented people are difficult, you know because they challenge you and it is not difficult for them but more so than the average person It's kind of, it is good and enjoyable.

00:36:39: Let us use a live example.

00:36:41: not that he is difficult to manage but Jordan challenges me all the time right?

00:36:45: And its really like I have developed by helping him manage Jordan on that side things.

00:36:53: Hold on pause there.

00:36:54: sorry Who is the broker in our company who comes with you most highest performer?

00:37:02: Just just for anyone out there listening who thinks like you know, oh Jordan must just do nothing in the company and he's never in There And you know He'd much as to a deal.

00:37:08: when then go away on holiday speaks to you more than any other bro.

00:37:11: Yeah absolutely Absolutely.

00:37:14: Whether it's just sounding things off bouncing ideas that are you know?

00:37:17: It makes things happen doesn't take no for an answer Which is why at times difficult to manage

00:37:24: we've always had to say and I'll be funny For any broker here this or even a manager people way less hard to manage their performing.

00:37:33: And what I mean by that is if you have a very low performer asking me the exact same question as high-performer, say they want a bit of leeway here or they're trying push there luck find them far less annoying.

00:37:44: after billing lots money simple it's like you get more leeway and if your scoring goals for team You'll be getting chance at Rome

00:37:51: Absolutely!

00:37:52: And i think its something not enough people talk about.

00:37:55: everyone has exactly the same.

00:37:56: If you come into my office and your asking me the same question for a hundredth time, And you're not billing it does become a headache.

00:38:03: But if you are coming in to ask him the same questions for the tenth time when he's a high performer Yes sometimes You just going to go ah its fine.

00:38:09: He is putting money on his body.

00:38:10: There

00:38:11: are those people out there right?

00:38:13: It absolutely fine.

00:38:15: The most important thing that comes up with this question Right Agreed And talking Bouncing ideas off us because we're here to help and, you know I've been working in real estate since two thousand four right.

00:38:30: so it's kind of.

00:38:33: there's lots of things that have happened in those periods.

00:38:35: And sometimes you can pull on historic experience or recent experience from other brokers etc.

00:38:41: but then quite often will bounce ideas off each other.

00:38:44: oh yeah It just like.

00:38:46: this is the situation.

00:38:47: what are you thinking?

00:38:47: i'm thinking along these lines is

00:38:51: Neil will give me a scenario but not tell the brokers names and they'll say what do you think?

00:38:57: So that we know there's definitely no favouritism, or if it was this person.

00:39:01: They would say this broker has done this, this broker have done this... What are you thinking?

00:39:04: And then we'd be doing the same on other way around because we don't want to know as high performer, low performer We dont' wanna know which area its nothing like that.

00:39:11: It just who is right.

00:39:13: One thing I think nobody can say about our management style Or us as businesses that were unfair.

00:39:17: Yeah, I think especially you've instilled that.

00:39:20: I used to be a bit soft and i used to find it more difficult with better now but You hundred percent have always been like listen thats the decision im making its what's fairest for their business.

00:39:28: we're not giving anyone favouritism.

00:39:30: Thats the rules.

00:39:31: And that is something when we interview other brokers from other companies one of biggest One of the biggest complaints.

00:39:41: they get people in there company just do whatever they want based on how long they've been there or if their a high performer.

00:39:48: Don't get me wrong, Jordan gets all the perks fantastic but I'll tell you what If he doesn't look after his list and someone takes it off of him.

00:39:54: that's how is goes.

00:39:55: And at end-of-day jordan has an admin who can update everything.

00:39:58: There are obviously things in place here But point is as follows same rules with rest of business.

00:40:03: He definitely has his perks You know?

00:40:06: Whether your top of tree Or bottom of trees.

00:40:09: We see it as fairness and equality across the business which I think, you know looking back at all of the interviews that we've ever done It's always like oh yeah this person my company just get to take everyone stock And do whatever they want.

00:40:20: You know so

00:40:20: on.

00:40:23: That is part of our success, right?

00:40:25: Because we're able you joining that if your new to the company You have this same amount of chances as everyone else not just because you've been here three years.

00:40:32: Do you like get a?

00:40:34: there's an element of a head start legacy

00:40:36: brokers?

00:40:36: But you can still get in there and get those properties because they're gonna be at busy Right.

00:40:41: And we just need as many people looking after the sellers as possible so to execute a transaction.

00:40:47: and that's why are depth of fantastic brokers is phenomenal.

00:40:53: You know, people you know consistently billing over a hundred thousand every month is absolutely wild and People have that opportunity to come in And become an associate director and make a real mark In the business.

00:41:09: and I think it wouldn't happen unless you have That complete sort of fairness across The board.

00:41:15: agreed

00:41:16: something quite interesting.

00:41:17: there's always one of our Biggest metrics that me and you measure against is our brokers.

00:41:23: And then what the average broker bills per month across company.

00:41:26: when we got a hundred brokers, it's quite easy to get The brokers too.

00:41:29: an average of one hundred K per month because you've only got hundreds.

00:41:32: look after yeah.

00:41:32: But when we're sitting at no three hundred sales brokers in and two hundred leasing brokered maybe once one seventy-ish We right now are average salesbroker per month as a hundred and seventeen K. Yeah just phenomenal.

00:41:48: It's phenomenal.

00:41:51: Our content makes the business look effortless.

00:41:53: What does that audience never get to see?

00:42:02: You

00:42:04: know, it is those.

00:42:11: the consistency.

00:42:12: It's doing the same things over and over again.

00:42:14: wouldn't be great content if you just follow does around right because we're doing The Same Things every day?

00:42:18: Yeah, you Know Everyone's into the office like you know early, you know prepping for the day already.

00:42:25: no You know what's happening this week What our goals are for this week will have short medium And long-term goals on what were looking to achieve and how We going about Doing that.

00:42:35: and then The beauty is, there's all the different ideas that come up like from Candice.

00:42:41: I was

00:42:41: about to say Candace comes into office other day Like it's such an open door policy and you know what?

00:42:46: Sometimes the idea works sometimes they don't but You know comes in the office really excited.

00:42:50: i've got an idea.

00:42:51: Yeah It's not alright.

00:42:52: well we'll bring her at our next board meeting And let us maybe chat a bit about it.

00:42:55: I'm in here your are going out.

00:42:55: We're gonna make this decision.

00:42:57: Let's decide Exactly That something that Because were so fluid and malleable.

00:43:02: Even now five-and-a-half years with seven hundred people We can still move at late speed.

00:43:08: Yeah,

00:43:08: but also you know everyone's on the sales floor right and that door is open The whole time.

00:43:13: And you know maybe there was a misconception.

00:43:15: no You are genuinely in the office every day?

00:43:19: I like my holidays during summer But your

00:43:21: genuinely in their and you're genuinely helping and you'll get people got questions and that side of things.

00:43:26: so You know what they don't get to see it as just constant consistent discipline approach to things because it wouldn't make for good

00:43:35: content.

00:43:35: It would be fun content, you're absolutely right!

00:43:38: What's the most common way brokers in this city let clients down and how do we make sure that they don't?

00:43:45: Not doing what they say they are going to do... all of

00:43:47: them through my head.

00:43:48: there was exactly same thing.

00:43:50: So

00:43:51: there's nothing more annoying than saying I'll give you a call back with whatever at this time and then You don't do it, right?

00:43:57: Or i'll send you A whatsapp With the information.

00:43:59: And you don't Do It like.

00:44:01: it's just The same as ninety nine percent of the other brokers out There who Don't do what they say They're going to do so

00:44:07: To be one Of the top five percent all we need to do is do What he said you were gonna do.

00:44:13: yeah

00:44:14: crazy because that the standard in our industry Is so low for entry.

00:44:18: yep Forty thousand real estate brokers, seventy thousand total with unregistered brokers.

00:44:23: Freelancers etc.

00:44:26: But really what we're seeing is just that the majority of the brokers in the market Just don't do what they said They are going to Do.

00:44:31: Don't do it and say gonna do.

00:44:33: Tell The Truth And It's Really Not That Difficult.

00:44:36: Be Consistent In Discipline Agreed Agreed And Do Over And Over Again That

00:44:42: One.

00:44:42: Listen I love some Of These Long Answers but See Some Kind Is Just Do What You Said You Are Going To Do.

00:44:46: Yeah Um...Is Burn Out Real?

00:44:50: and high performance environments.

00:44:51: And how do you tell the difference between burnout and laziness?

00:44:57: Burnout's not real, no...

00:44:59: Never burn out when your winnin'.

00:45:01: Yeah exactly!

00:45:02: No, burnout is not real at all.

00:45:04: You know if you're gonna be working.

00:45:10: it's funny because people get burnt-out but yet they always seem to have enough energy To go out on weekends When their burned out.

00:45:17: that side of things right.

00:45:19: But comes back to consistency and how you want to structure your life, which will dictate whether you are burnt out or not.

00:45:28: Round of three months a hundred percent or full year at ETH?

00:45:30: Exactly!

00:45:31: So it's... Three months get in there- You don't get burned out by that but just need a little reward on the end right?

00:45:39: Take week off have long weekend whatever needs be.

00:45:43: But even through those three month high intensity You know, it is a case of taking along weekend in there and what have you?

00:45:50: just break it up.

00:45:52: Look we've been pretty much the last... In a season from sort of March anyway like three months neither of us had holidays or anything would be full gunning for to get out that situation which hasn't necessarily affected but has come down being head-down.

00:46:15: Do we say you're gonna do be disciplined?

00:46:18: Educate train and everything will be okay.

00:46:21: So Am I tired, i'm looking forward to my holiday next week You know for going away.

00:46:27: yeah It's in the uh it's in our approvals chat.

00:46:31: um so it's you know And it's great and that's a reward that you get right.

00:46:36: But i'm not burned out.

00:46:37: i could continue to go on.

00:46:39: Um its nice have a break.

00:46:40: let

00:46:40: me push on that further.

00:46:42: There's brokers who have no one that they have any dependency on or have dependence.

00:46:47: They don't have kids, a wife, school fees... All of the crazy things.

00:46:54: someone who has family life and are further down-the line tell people their burnout?

00:47:03: Do you think by us saying there's no such thing as burnout at that point do you think it would be disrespectful to those who actually burn out when You know, you go home to two kids.

00:47:17: You've got pressures of school fees so on and so forth.

00:47:19: or a broker who has two children... School fees every time they want it going holiday.

00:47:24: They're not paying for one seat-two seats!

00:47:25: They are paying full family to get away Way much more pressure.

00:47:32: So I find that like..you brought this up at once.

00:47:35: It was just looking the amount high performers right now aren't in their phase of life.

00:47:39: And no they weren't all saying there burnt out.

00:47:40: But point is we were getting ahead Before you guys start saying hey, we're burnt out and stuff.

00:47:45: Burnout looks like this in that room I think there was three people who had two kids all of them And then they've got a family life.

00:47:53: when they get home They still have kids jumping around to help with homework.

00:47:58: So it's just interesting seeing that.

00:48:00: Yeah!

00:48:02: You don't know tiredness until your kids right?

00:48:04: Then learn how handle it.

00:48:08: Don't envy.

00:48:12: I think that's what the army do as well in their training, don't they?

00:48:16: They take you to extreme sleep deprivation and try build from your point.

00:48:22: The human body can do so much more if you want it.

00:48:29: Ultimately... Setting goals is another thing.

00:48:34: people set goals but It's better to set habits because then that's perpetual, right?

00:48:39: And then it continues.

00:48:39: so you don't reach a goal and go Finish done.

00:48:42: Right now I need like.

00:48:45: Now I'm burnt out.

00:48:46: I needed cuz I hit my goal, right rather than just well I still need to do four deals a month Like.

00:48:51: that's what I'm doing this year for deals of months not hit X target.

00:48:57: Yeah

00:48:57: You always use it in its good term.

00:49:00: One the World Cup one the Champions League have won the Europa next season.

00:49:04: I'm just gonna try.

00:49:05: yeah I'm burnt out, i did everything so just leave it there.

00:49:08: That's not what high performers do.

00:49:11: What is a bet that we're making right now?

00:49:14: The rest of the market will only understand in three years...

00:49:20: What's A Bet?

00:49:21: What are

00:49:22: you thinking

00:49:23: about?

00:49:25: That only in Three Years Will The Rest Of The Market Turn Around And Go?

00:49:29: We Didn't See This Coming Or Something White & Co Is Doing Or Whatever Way You Want To Frame It.

00:49:37: Definitely The interesting part of that question is we've not really got started yet, right?

00:49:47: In terms of your vision and in terms where were going.

00:49:50: And... Where are gonna be?

00:49:54: three years time will be super exciting!

00:49:58: I don't think other companies understand how to get there and what needs to be done, ultimately.

00:50:11: To get to that's it we're doing right?

00:50:12: So I can't you know they just never gonna understand... ...I don't think really Just as simple is out.

00:50:21: You know

00:50:22: there

00:50:23: so much.

00:50:23: um It..you gotta in this white encode to understand What i'm talking about In terms of where were going.

00:50:31: And y'know your super transparent in absolutely everything.

00:50:35: But There are elements Where We know what we're doing.

00:50:38: Yeah, we still haven't figured out exactly What?

00:50:41: We're gonna do to get there but we know where were going

00:50:43: over.

00:50:43: then goal is.

00:50:45: Final question all right and back the dungeon you go.

00:50:50: And when your eventually done with all this What do you want people to say?

00:50:55: white and close stood for.

00:50:58: There's certain companies in every industry that completely change How things are done.

00:51:07: You know, they're innovators.

00:51:10: They you move the goalposts and thing is real estate as we've always said.

00:51:15: We are not reinventing wheel here But in which it can be executed The efficiencies that could be done.

00:51:24: You were already ahead of curve on this side.

00:51:28: What I want White & Co to stand for move the goalposts and change the direction of real estate on how it was executed.

00:51:38: The transparency over company for everyone to see whether you're a buyer, seller or broker where having a company that changed the course of how real estate was conducted through professionalism and standards, um...was full transparency.

00:51:58: And I don't think there are many companies in any industry that has that total transparency…um..that we have whilst setting unbelievable standards for professionalism & delivering results.

00:52:12: What answer?

00:52:13: Gamechangers!

00:52:14: Gamechanger's absolutely Final question there, I really appreciate you taking your time.

00:52:21: I will see in the office on Monday.

00:52:23: Yeah Absolutely pleasure And i think that getting to see someone who ive worked with for five and a half years Just get into seeing input of all these questions.

00:52:34: I want people to know if you're coming to work at Whiting Coe There is madness thats me but it's very well balanced yourself and that's one of the reasons it all worked so well.

00:52:44: You interview with me, you go.

00:52:46: wow this guy is a bit mad.

00:52:47: then when I meet him he goes oh there are other sides!

00:52:49: It's the Jekyll & Hyde.

00:52:52: but yeah no really appreciate.

00:52:54: thanks so much mate.

00:52:55: Look forward to next time in five years.

00:52:57: we have another chat.