00:00:00: But an office we took in the middle of a conflict, sitting empty and not touched it yet.

00:00:03: Yet?

00:00:04: Yes!

00:00:04: We knew that were going to need

00:00:05: him.

00:00:05: We knew are gonna need you.

00:00:06: We've got

00:00:06: big risk appetite.

00:00:07: He was alarmingly big when I first joined...

00:00:09: We're no complete maniacs.

00:00:10: Yeah yeah we're not completely maniacs.

00:00:18: Reck Norris Welcome You're welcome.

00:00:21: and me How are ya?

00:00:22: Im good how are you?

00:00:23: I'm fantastic i am excited And we already had Neil on first time out of the dungeon.

00:00:28: We had Poppy at office here, which she hates to do.

00:00:33: and now finally Rick after sitting down with you we then got the rest management team such a behind the scenes for people because people don't really know a lot about our management team.

00:00:44: They are just in there cracking on, so they're going to get to learn alot about you.

00:00:49: but real pleasure... I'm

00:00:50: glad to be here!

00:00:51: Absolutely well we'll get cracking on cause it's not- People dont want.

00:00:55: watch me and you just go.

00:00:56: hi how are ya?

00:00:58: You came from Bellway Homes A large UK PLC.

00:01:02: What was the single biggest culture shock?

00:01:04: i would say like moving to White & Co And also move into Dubai.

00:01:09: I would probably say it was the restriction that had to this ultimate freedom kind of role where we could look at things, make a decision and be decisive in things that implement.

00:01:19: on same day.

00:01:21: At Bellway there were multiple tiers of sign-offs with PLC corporate structure almost shooting from the hip because you have a maverick character.

00:01:32: so... That's probably the biggest shock for me.

00:01:36: You you just go off straight away, and it's trying to rain you in a little bit.

00:01:42: It'll give you the freedom To do what?

00:02:08: almost three years and for anyone that I know it's probably came up on the screen by now.

00:02:11: but Rick is our, we call him God group operations director.

00:02:15: But you know he oversees everything under the group not just real estate.

00:02:19: there are nine companies in the group and Rick keeps an eye out at every thing to make sure those all tick.

00:02:25: What gets harder operationally as a business goes from fifty people To one hundred, three-hundred five-hundered men where they're now which is beyond

00:02:34: I would say everything, if we don't get it right at the start... Foundations.

00:02:38: The foundations need to get that right you know?

00:02:40: You wouldn't build a house put a roof on it without getting the foundation's rights.

00:02:44: We needed me to get systems infrastructure people in the right places because there is lot do with and allows company just scale comfortably

00:02:56: And does big difference between one hundred five-hundred?

00:02:59: No, I'd say the biggest difference is probably from twenty to a hundred.

00:03:01: when you get to one hundred You'd like to think that their foundations are set.

00:03:04: We get things right because You know save your other hundred agents The repetition of doing things.

00:03:10: we've gone through the teeth and mistakes And we've learned how better do processes than stuff Because that allows it to go too.

00:03:16: Yeah, and this is something I get asked all the time on podcasts myself as what's the difference between a hundred to two fifty?

00:03:21: Two fifty to five hundred?

00:03:23: And in all honesty once we hit that one hundred mark It was just replication duplication and you know You would work out how many.

00:03:29: if you've got thirty brokers What do they need?

00:03:32: yeah They need have this many admins This many conveyance or so much market and then As you grow you just continuously Do that sort of thing which makes it really.

00:03:41: And you know, there's support as well.

00:03:43: The direct on the floor is like we've scaled.

00:03:45: that has the brokes of scale too which it makes... It'd be unfair for us to try and go from a hundred to five-hundred and expect one hundred fifty agents to speak with two directors or one director We have enough support in the floor That allows us to grow beforehand as well.

00:04:05: Yeah, we knew it was coming in and never

00:04:06: reacted to anything with something.

00:04:08: Neil said that you know.

00:04:10: sometimes We've hired people way earlier than when he did on the

00:04:13: way earlier

00:04:13: because we knew It Was Coming.

00:04:15: yeah And we wanted to be prepared.

00:04:16: but That's been a pattern since we opened.

00:04:19: considering that we open with us sixteen thousand square foot office in eight people They've always known they'll get there before going is gone that way.

00:04:27: What do you think?

00:04:28: People underestimate most about running a company this size, which to be clear there's seven hundred in real estate that is probably close

00:04:44: The procedures, the training and everything that is in place to allow it happen.

00:04:54: Because you see the front end... You can see all the accolades coming with them.

00:05:00: but there was so much of a background which allowed us get at this point Even down to accounts, HR management as well.

00:05:11: That's fun side of things.

00:05:13: There are lots going on back then.

00:05:14: people don't say But good people contribute.

00:05:17: I want to jump into something you said there because for us, we tend to use the word fun and other companies go oh it's so much stress.

00:05:25: It is so much headache... And i'm not saying that every day they'll walk in a park for us but.. We always look at things from our solution side ,not problem-side.

00:05:36: A hundred percent!

00:05:39: giving us, again a lot of success.

00:05:41: You know we are fixers and having that team full of fixer's We're not all sitting there looking at the problem going.

00:05:45: what do I just gonna write?

00:05:46: Here is all options.

00:05:48: here Is it all dimensions where you can hit this thing from

00:05:51: That outlooks across management teams as well.

00:05:53: every single person Rather than coming in like oh y'know What should be doing with these situations they come up with.

00:05:59: look i've got some problems.

00:06:00: This is why im thinking about what to think.

00:06:02: They already came up with solution.

00:06:03: They want sound off someone bounce their ideas out then go out.

00:06:09: No, I think as our ability has improved.

00:06:14: People... We've got some really strong people in the right positions now which allows that to happen and probably at this start like early doors.

00:06:21: before i came it was probably just firefighting more often than not rather then having a bit of a more proactive outlook and thinking of a solution.

00:06:30: The funny thing you said there is see with brokers.

00:06:33: we want them come task within offer But we also are saying they've got a problem.

00:06:36: We don't want them to come up and go, someone's what's that me?

00:06:39: What do I say?

00:06:39: Yeah!

00:06:40: I want him to walk up to us and go.

00:06:41: Someone was.

00:06:41: what's happening here is what i'm thinking about same back.

00:06:43: Is this correct?

00:06:44: yeah so we can have our managers act in the Same way.

00:06:48: you know coming up to sing one would be there's A Problem.

00:06:50: They should Be Coming Up with a Few Solutions And Then Between Us all We Look at From A few Different Angles We go That's The One.

00:06:55: Let'S Do That Way.

00:06:56: So It's Very Interesting.

00:06:58: What's The Biggest Operational bottlenecks You See In Growing Companies?

00:07:03: decision-making, it's always the same.

00:07:05: Time is a measure of everything and goes back to how long does that take?

00:07:09: So if you have seven layers of management to go through to get decision made we're reacting too slow to change in the market even marketing for example.

00:07:18: We see some this really current or needs to go out very quickly.

00:07:23: We have to be able make decisions on how looks so when people?

00:07:28: And again going back to my corporate life an PLC would be multiple signups together.

00:07:33: Not small things, but the thing that shouldn't be you know taking up people's time.

00:07:36: Yeah Things it shouldn't be having to run past a board.

00:07:38: No It shouldn't Be like That Whereas With Us Its You Know Some Days its You Neil and I in A Room And It Just Like.

00:07:44: What Do We Think About This?

00:07:46: Yes yes no we go away and Execute But Then Don't Always Get It Right.

00:07:51: yeah So Sometimes We Go Back In.

00:07:53: Okay We Need To Correct this.

00:07:54: I mean correct it just as quickly As We Changed It.

00:07:56: i think two things there.

00:07:58: one is by The Time Someone Had Ten Different Discussions about We've Already Tested Three different ways tackling, which is one thing.

00:08:03: And secondly you're being a bit generous saying that sometimes it's me and Neil I mean some things are coming in.

00:08:08: decisions already made them like okay yeah That's how goes.

00:08:10: but the good thing Is that i've got that trust there with yourself neil and poppy where You guys can steer to company In The Right Direction because we all communicate at such an open level for so long.

00:08:21: yep It's almost You guys know what I'd say yes and no to.

00:08:25: And instead of it having a big long conversation, you've already thought all my objections to that.

00:08:30: What's Callan going to see?

00:08:31: This won't work because this usually from the broker side It'll be like right.

00:08:34: Callan thinks they will annoy the brokers in this way.

00:08:36: so let us not do these things Because

00:08:39: we always liked playing devil's advocate.

00:08:41: We play that ball sometimes Just to stress test their decision.

00:08:47: So it's biggest operational bottleneck that you see is decision making and the speed of getting that

00:08:54: done.

00:08:55: We're a large company now, but we need to manoeuvre like where small companies

00:08:59: do think I guess lost.

00:09:00: as people get bigger dig at any company.

00:09:02: That Is The Size That We Are.

00:09:04: They Would Usually Have Lost Themselves To A Corporate.

00:09:06: You Know Sort Of Way Of Working Yeah

00:09:08: And The Structure Helps.

00:09:09: You Know A Lot Of Corporate Companies Large Companies.

00:09:12: They Go Too Vertical Whereas We're Still Relatively Flat.

00:09:15: So decisions is one or two layers, it's done.

00:09:19: To be fair that was a good point.

00:09:20: there are never more than two layers in the company.

00:09:22: you're exactly right.

00:09:23: It's actually nevermorethantwolayers to get me.

00:09:26: Yes Really?

00:09:28: Nevermorethantoo Is my goal manager then yourself or Neil Yep

00:09:32: And into You

00:09:32: I mean even you guys will sign off on stuff which he has had powerto do.

00:09:35: so really no more Than Two Layers to Get Decision.

00:09:38: yes

00:09:38: Exactly

00:09:40: We've grown at an incredible speed.

00:09:42: How have we managed to scale without completely losing control of standards?

00:09:48: Okay, I'm going to go and switch this round the other way.

00:09:51: I think our standards got better as we've scaled.

00:09:55: So take a football team for example.

00:09:58: right you're in lead two league one.

00:10:00: The caliber play that they look after themselves Prep for the games in their matches is different to when you get to Premier League of what standard needs to be set For these players to perform.

00:10:11: and I think that's our brokers.

00:10:13: now, You know as we've has we've improved so much.

00:10:16: And we Know we dominate leads and listings and transactions.

00:10:20: So much like that's all standard or standard is raised Now to be number one.

00:10:23: We only just stay there if you have to be better than what you were together.

00:10:26: It was always easier to get somewhere.

00:10:28: then it is to hold up to say they're and hold it.

00:10:32: I would say our standards have been stronger as we've got bigger.

00:10:36: And maybe what the start, especially when I first joined it felt like you know that's really leveled up.

00:10:41: No

00:10:41: has levelled up.

00:10:41: It definitely hasn't and i think there are a few different things for anyone out There.

00:10:45: people always see companies just getting better because they've hired more People or we're hiring More people but at The same time We Are getting more experienced people as in the brokers.

00:10:54: That with us.

00:10:54: now thats compounding.

00:10:56: yes They're becoming Better Brokers.

00:10:57: their networks are growing the tools that are In the market and the Tools that were innovating also making them more equipped Their skill levels increasing.

00:11:06: When you combine that all together, this is why our average per broker-per month continuously rises even considering the year we've had.

00:11:13: All

00:11:13: these one percent compounded to something big or a period of time?

00:11:17: Definitely definitely.

00:11:19: I want talk about processes and structure.

00:11:22: Your job essentially has been add enough structure.

00:11:24: let us scale without killing.

00:11:26: speed makes as good You know your combination of sales and compliance.

00:11:33: How do you know how much process is enough?

00:11:39: Again, it goes to speed and also go as to... ...how it affects people.

00:11:43: So for example we want a raise of ceiling As much as we can but we also wanna raise the floor A lot of people because not every broker For example Is best broker with most natural ability And gifted in role right But need make sure that processes get them To standard which above market to compete.

00:12:02: But we also don't want to put too much process in that these people have a natural gift for it, That we restrict their ability To do the job In the fashion they're doing.

00:12:10: Naturally salespeople hate admin And admin usually comes with some processes.

00:12:15: So how did we stress test this?

00:12:17: So

00:12:18: say we're going to implement something right now.

00:12:20: How do you look at that and go, have I got it wrong?

00:12:23: Do we need to change it?

00:12:24: as this just a case of getting feedback from the brokers is us seeing what these data says?

00:12:28: there's a combination or both.

00:12:30: What are your things?

00:12:30: It depends

00:12:30: on what part of business.

00:12:31: if its broker related Its more about feel than the voice that you hear back.

00:12:36: But If its something thats tangible for example The time To get A video out.

00:12:41: From conception Of the idea It's an efficiency.

00:12:47: We can see the time difference that it is going to make, will process speed up as we slow down?

00:12:54: At what point does a process become bureaucracy rather than something useful?

00:13:00: for me at times of measure again if something has taken us longer spending extra day doing something, but we get our quality or output much better.

00:13:14: There's a cost and value side of it right?

00:13:17: The costs is bit more time for the values to produce something great.

00:13:20: if We're not doing one side I'm really getting you.

00:13:22: that doesn't work.

00:13:23: You know just taking this time.

00:13:24: We don't improve something.

00:13:25: It's not right.

00:13:27: How do you decide when processes need to be company-wide And which ones should be left at individual departments.

00:13:33: um I mean, firstly we look at performance.

00:13:36: Right?

00:13:36: If someone's performing already... We don't want to break something that is not broken or try and fix it for example.

00:13:44: Let's take sales, leasing the most off-plan.

00:13:48: this our next journey right where you need complete this part of business.

00:13:53: so their process what they're getting from an off plan to allow a scale to grow.

00:13:56: get everyone information as quickly as he can as easy as they can.

00:14:00: That will lead more processing structure in allowing them happy.

00:14:04: Whereas sales and the way that we're performing now, there's almost a bit of flair to it.

00:14:10: broken away from having this restriction and we now know how to operate

00:14:13: it.

00:14:13: Yeah, so a change that we would make in sales right now might get another one or two percent out of which... We will continue to do.

00:14:20: but chains that were making off plan will move the needle massively

00:14:22: big time And that's what we need to identify is who needs you?

00:14:26: What departments need the structure?

00:14:27: We go in with look at some ideas about some ideas around.

00:14:31: um And then yeah, we try moving your ten percent twenty percent.

00:14:34: You know

00:14:35: Which is massive industries like How do you know when a department needs more people versus simply needing better processes?

00:14:43: Yeah, it's this age-old discussion that you could just throw bodies at something and get them done quicker.

00:14:47: You want to paint your house put twenty painters but they don't all work efficiently in a small space.

00:14:52: so like anything we look at the process.

00:14:55: what are ten?

00:14:56: steps from A to B can remove four five six seven.

00:15:00: how did we do?

00:15:01: is AI or a better CRM system Cleansing our data to reuse it better throughout the business.

00:15:09: So we need to look at the process first before We can decide what's, What's the merit is?

00:15:14: It just...we need more people here To handle The volume that's coming through Or could be chip away At the process and make That Better

00:15:21: And I think off-the-back of that As we talk about this quite a lot When were training brokers.

00:15:24: But i always Look across three different things Skills Volume Processes.

00:15:28: Yes!

00:15:30: The first thing to do before throwing more bodies at it is check that you've attacked a problem through those three different lenses.

00:15:35: Exactly!

00:15:36: Have they got the skills, too?

00:15:37: Make sure they're doing well enough.

00:15:39: have we got volume of them and then process can continuously follow get some best results And if they are doing all this in their max capacity That's when bringing more bodies or right people.

00:15:51: So yeah absolutely

00:15:54: Sorry.

00:15:54: And the consistency of doing that as well, right?

00:15:56: Yeah You know having this skill and consistently applying it I'm having a volume consistently working at um you Know process is world just being consistently do the same thing every day to get the results because You can do it for a month and you can see your result.

00:16:09: if he knew it four two years then you can like the compound effect.

00:16:11: It's just yeah, yes

00:16:13: That's why I see whenever I write that down, you know i always put skills volume processes.

00:16:18: There's never an addition saying in between them some multiplier Because this is what people don't get.

00:16:23: It really, it's not your add-in one percent here and there over a long time like you just said two years the compounding is ridiculous.

00:16:33: What systems or processes have made the biggest differences to white and co as we've scaled?

00:16:38: Like what one comes to your head are what ones come into your head that You're like?

00:16:41: yeah when I implemented that was massive

00:16:43: for me personally Was the conversion tracker because you know everything was up was more on feel.

00:16:50: And you could look at listings and stuff like that, see what's happening but we weren't seeing the breakdown early enough for people sometimes.

00:16:57: so if we're great picking up listings but not getting any inquiries there is something wrong with our price or market in a stock it isn't always transacting um... But then when you get plenty of enquires going out doing viewings your not extracting offers okay?

00:17:10: We need to train this part.

00:17:12: We could see at what point people broke down in the process.

00:17:16: If a conversion rate was above the threshold or below it, and then we identify where it was... ...we get these people to train they needed as part of their processes that he would like.

00:17:25: A good thing about real estate is because you break them into really five simple parts.

00:17:29: You take one part out, you fix it, you slot back-in And I think too many managers, companies... If your right now want sit there and go how's Whiting Couduna?

00:17:40: Nothing!

00:17:42: The basics well every day.

00:17:43: Yeah,

00:17:44: nothing complicated.

00:17:45: no that's what we're doing.

00:17:46: just the basics and doing them.

00:17:47: Well yeah So that is a big one.

00:17:49: so it was just that conversion tracker across our business everywhere.

00:17:52: We've

00:17:52: got that everywhere now.

00:17:53: And also It gives visibility on Just performance cross teams because you know all That data pulls together and give us team overview who's good at What part?

00:18:02: Who's hitting target consistently.

00:18:03: so I felt like when There was a lot of different sheets kicking about at the start.

00:18:08: We just consolidated it to give everyone the visibility, everything in their business and all came from that tracker.

00:18:13: really.

00:18:14: so I would say...

00:18:15: The tracker is fantastic we still use every single day.

00:18:18: now with AI coming obviously got our chief AI officer starting.

00:18:22: when this comes out will probably be the Thursday after, I think it will be.

00:18:26: Yes!

00:18:26: And we're just excited to get that person implemented and equipping people with right tools... I'm already pretty adept at AI yourself as well when getting there but in the end of day you can always learn There's no egos.

00:18:39: We need a fast track because everything is going to change the way things operate.

00:18:44: so either embrace something really good or don't embrace anything left behind.

00:18:51: Yeah, I want to talk about something really cool because you have actually been the person spearheading this over the past probably six months if i'm honest.

00:19:00: The AI call system that I showed everyone which... You know what it's?

00:19:04: It wouldn't say its the bane of your life but is something you spend a lot of time on.

00:19:07: We're very

00:19:08: close now.

00:19:09: What

00:19:09: do you think about that?

00:19:11: and then.. What are you thinking about that And what uses is going give ?

00:19:14: I Think This Could Potentially Change The Game.

00:19:19: the conversion rate on it is very, very good.

00:19:23: The volume and output are just unmatched.

00:19:25: Let me interrupt... Why's the conversion so good do you think compared to the human broker making a call?

00:19:30: Is that lack of fear?

00:19:32: That would definitely play as part.

00:19:34: It's not scared off kickback or push back if he gets As well all the good things we train All the bits That's programmed into it.

00:19:45: So, only does the best things that we want to do is

00:19:47: like having your best broker make every call on business?

00:19:50: Yes

00:19:51: Wow and

00:19:52: obviously we can operate this concurrently.

00:19:54: you know hundreds of calls at a time.

00:19:55: You know to cleanse our date and go through our database And speak to people engage with owners.

00:20:00: It's gonna be fantastic.

00:20:01: in what?

00:20:02: We're thinking that's going to lead to his you know listings Touching base for people who maybe haven't had the same service that we would one.

00:20:10: yes Everyone has a CRM.

00:20:12: that's just full of stuff, maybe actively working as worried.

00:20:17: Yeah I think it could be game-changing is some pretty impressive tech and really excited to see when we get out in the field how that works.

00:20:25: yeah i think its going to be very cool because something thats revolutionary tool.

00:20:31: you know theres nothing really revolutionary that ended by real estate.

00:20:34: over past eleven years ive been there where ive went.

00:20:36: wow that was massive change.

00:20:38: Claude s like a big thing but thats not specific direct

00:20:41: to something that ultimately can generate leads, right?

00:20:44: Yeah.

00:20:45: This is the thing.

00:20:46: yeah this Is a thing they can genuinely get you more money and revenue.

00:20:50: like Claude an AI.

00:20:51: it's going To make your own money but You still need to be able to use at daily.

00:20:55: this is essentially passive work.

00:20:57: Yeah That's it.

00:20:58: And It's gonna mean amplifier.

00:20:59: Right because if If this is Gonna give you five people A day or ten People a Day They Can Speak to their Interest Listen Their Property You can handle more, right?

00:21:06: Yeah.

00:21:06: And get more on... you can work the price well and go through a process which spoke about an amplify your ability to close deals.

00:21:14: Does that mean we want brokerers stop getting on phones?

00:21:17: Definitely not.

00:21:18: I just think it's great skill to keep.

00:21:21: How many skills?

00:21:22: maybe if fifty years ago with what is changing in world people don't know how do now That person-to-person relationship building still needs happen?

00:21:32: This AI calling tool is.

00:21:34: it's only going to get you so far.

00:21:35: It's gonna get your foot in the door, who needs be the one that walks through it?

00:21:38: You need to build a relationship and gain their trust.

00:21:42: qualified them well walked with the door then take them on my journey thereafters.

00:21:45: its' Only Gonna just gonna get you through your foot In The Door.

00:21:49: And Then After That What's Up To You?

00:21:52: Tangent There Mm-hmm.

00:21:53: there's Every Company In The Market.

00:21:55: Nowadays Its Opening up.

00:21:56: I don't Blame Them Because They Have To have Their USP.

00:21:58: Yes But they're Trying Do Everything They Can To Avoid Picking Up The Phones.

00:22:02: Yep Now Correct me if I'm wrong.

00:22:05: I don't know you've ever been, my background is sales and picking up the phone in Rattling The Phones whereas i feel that your being a lot more of a back ground operator especially on your career proper career.

00:22:17: What do think about these companies doing it?

00:22:19: And its not slight against them It's just.

00:22:22: Do You Think That They're going to struggle down the route when, you know?

00:22:26: The world is changing or this gonna be a new way.

00:22:28: Is it about social media?

00:22:30: Or not picking up phones and just being known online?

00:22:32: You've now got massive social media presence yourself Rick but at the same time do see that what goes on.

00:22:38: so how do think those businesses are gonna fare?

00:22:42: Yeah I just think okay take investments for example...you would put all your eggs in one basket..the whole idea with investment is diversify portfolio In this industry, right?

00:22:53: If you are fantastic on the phones and your schedule that in your diary to put it into a couple hours of day or week To pick up the phone speak to people.

00:23:00: Yeah On top of that You put ours in there in your diaries to go out do social media through videos It's all these different things.

00:23:06: add more strings to your bow.

00:23:07: And you know lead generation as well which ultimately sales about is what we're about here Is We need to ensure That we have The best possible chance Of getting As many quality leads as Possible.

00:23:17: yeah I think just sitting There going at you Know i only get leads from Social Media and you're doing yourself a disservice.

00:23:23: I think having all these bases covered is going to give you the best possible chance of succeeding.

00:23:29: You are data guy, do see how many leads we get per month?

00:23:32: Just so people are clear out there.

00:23:33: We got thirty six thousand leads a month.

00:23:37: Okay.

00:23:37: So thirty-six thousand people that have picked up their phone or laptop sat search properties And eventually hit inquire.

00:23:44: No it's not mistake It's nothing like that.

00:23:48: Do you think they need social media in the beginning?

00:23:52: And do you think that social media will ever beat the portals in the aspect of, got a hundred brokers?

00:23:58: You've got one hundred to do only social media.

00:24:00: You have a hundred to use the portails.

00:24:02: who's winning?

00:24:04: for me Portals currently.

00:24:07: Will that change in the future?

00:24:08: let us say dramatic changing by real estate and it becomes an exclusive market?

00:24:17: It might swing the other way.

00:24:19: The social media can help Amplify it better.

00:24:22: But for me, I think at the start you don't need to do social media.

00:24:26: It's great if he can but i think Invest six months in building yourself learn how to get on the phone handle conversations understand ROI what risk strategies and investment strategies for your clients Before You stop branching out trying To build a huge social media profile.

00:24:43: because it was interesting.

00:24:44: actually we were In a meeting maybe about six weeks ago now And The historical brokers who were good on social media, we're seeing less of a conversion and less lead generation than what the portals would give them even in this market.

00:25:01: So for me get The Basics right?

00:25:04: Get The Basic's Right!

00:25:05: And then brand channel.

00:25:06: look at Social Media one of our newest associate directors you know is briefly popped up on Social Media last sort three to four weeks.

00:25:14: probably before that it was just doing the process, doing the reps to get where it was.

00:25:20: And that's funny because again I remember a meeting...I don't know if its six weeks ago but probably closer at six months ago now.

00:25:25: But we had that meet and were in with high performers who gets their leads from social media for them.

00:25:31: put their hands up.

00:25:32: then keep mind there is room of forty.

00:25:34: If theres forty people on four put their hand up That means there are thirty-six that dont do Social Media.

00:25:41: It's not to say one is right and one wrong.

00:25:43: You can skin a cat in many different ways, but I think that To try an only aim at social media would be a big mistake.

00:25:51: Now also thinking if you are now an established broker through the portals use social media to amplify your reach Definitely we agree on that.

00:25:58: definitely

00:25:59: ii think as well.

00:26:00: it Also probably Is determined by the company you're at.

00:26:03: yeah see with us without database And all even or everything?

00:26:06: We have our disposal.

00:26:07: for you to not used and rely on social media will be stupid Yeah.

00:26:11: But maybe there's other companies where you don't get the support and investment that we give, so for them they have to go self-generate on social media.

00:26:18: You know what

00:26:18: was funny is like I'm sitting here We talk every single day...I've not thought about it before.

00:26:22: No wonder if your at a company who doesn't all of their resources All this data with big vast sales floor With these agents They'll have buyers and sellers.

00:26:33: Maybe they do say yeah Go into Social Media because How do you hold senior managers accountable without getting involved in every decision that they make?

00:26:46: I'm not a micromanager kind of guy.

00:26:48: You know, everyone's in their position and ability to manage the roles.

00:26:56: That conversion track at the start, what that was highlighting as well because it pulls her into teams is.

00:27:01: What teams were behind?

00:27:02: What teams need support and for us its more of a case of right.

00:27:05: we've got visibility.

00:27:06: if we're slightly off-the-pace here It's more of an nudge.

00:27:09: look there's problem Here.

00:27:10: let's get ahead of it before it becomes a big one rather than going in to making every decision for them.

00:27:15: instead

00:27:15: of prevention exactly.

00:27:18: We've got people in positions and now they're so experienced, and so high-performing.

00:27:22: There isn't a lot that we do need to tell them... They could run businesses if they wanted to.

00:27:26: You know what I mean?

00:27:26: Like don't get me wrong there's still the back end stuff.

00:27:28: they needed learn.

00:27:29: but as far as running a full sales floor or full sales team these guys are perfectly capable.

00:27:34: Yeah But you know that is correct.

00:27:36: And once we start getting things right it kind of just give him the trust Letting go with it and then keep an eye on the background.

00:27:43: That

00:27:43: says about empowerment.

00:27:46: Everyone in the company now, senior leadership and directors all know how each other thinks.

00:27:51: What are people's strong points or weaknesses?

00:27:55: We need to empower them to embrace what they're really good at... ...and we need to support them with things that still learning and developing.

00:28:03: When you get this part right it feels like the sky is there!

00:28:07: When a department wants to hire or spend, how do you decide yes?

00:28:11: Or no?

00:28:11: what's the actual test.

00:28:13: So when I'm like Rick i want to spend my money on this.

00:28:15: yeah What do you do?

00:28:16: either stop

00:28:17: me after stopped panicking and my chins hit the floor.

00:28:20: um It's all about value right?

00:28:23: This way I look at a lot of things in life.

00:28:25: is that?

00:28:25: Is?

00:28:26: there's a cost element But we're getting out of it Right?

00:28:29: is?

00:28:31: Here's my analogy You walk into a supermarket.

00:28:33: There's Bar of dairy milk because all we seem to all love dairy milk in the office, right?

00:28:38: It's seventy P for a bar.

00:28:40: We can buy the big one.

00:28:41: that's three times as much.

00:28:42: chocolate.

00:28:43: four pounds is on offer.

00:28:44: Right People will by the seventy P won.

00:28:47: if they're concerned about cost people who want about you like value Will buy the pound bar now You've got less money to spend it The next few trips at the supermarket.

00:28:57: because you bought him bulk right and its and his is analyzing.

00:29:00: okay There's a cost.

00:29:01: so this is ten thousand hundred thousand.

00:29:03: but What am I generating?

00:29:04: Was my value going to be out of it?

00:29:06: because, and i think that's why we're in a position where are our investment.

00:29:10: And sometimes you know bullishness To look at what value gonna get us something is committed as to something earlier than we probably want.

00:29:18: very so let people.

00:29:19: infrastructure

00:29:20: DRM got an office.

00:29:21: We took him the middle of the conflict setting empty not touched exactly yet Yet.

00:29:26: But we knew that were going to need it?

00:29:27: We knew are gonna needed.

00:29:28: so you know, that investment went and then was okay.

00:29:31: look It's gonna cost us now.

00:29:32: can we do it?

00:29:33: what would they get out of this?

00:29:34: What value I have here?

00:29:35: Okay when he gets six more seats on there.

00:29:36: six You know sixty seats at our average revenue is a lot Of money yeah.

00:29:40: So we know That we're Gonna Get paid Out of that.

00:29:41: Yeah Um...so yeah well..you Know very tall its crazy big Smallest Value.

00:29:47: what Is This Going To bring Us?

00:29:48: That He's Going to improve the business because that to me offsets the cost.

00:29:52: Yeah, that's what makes it whether worth or not and we've got a big risk appetite which is... It

00:30:00: was alarmingly big when I first joined because

00:30:04: like you're more used

00:30:05: to it now?

00:30:05: Yes but no this is good because do know why as we get- You can only make decisions with the facts at the time right.

00:30:12: so our ability to get all information correct from start We could make the decision So when it feels like is a big risk, sometimes.

00:30:21: It's a calculated Big Risk right?

00:30:22: We have enough information that we feel like its...

00:30:24: We're not complete maniacs.

00:30:25: Yeah yeah!

00:30:26: We are not completely maniacs you know.. We aren't shooting

00:30:28: fish in the dark.

00:30:32: You might not know the numbers on this because actually just for anyone watching I don't prep with all of your questions.

00:30:36: Do y'know what our overhead has increased from say Like When u first started until now or even if you've got From twenty-twenty five to twenty-six What the increase percentage was.

00:30:47: so i know from start it was about two hundred and forty percent.

00:30:50: I think we're up in terms of fixed overhead costs.

00:30:53: With twenty five, twenty six that i'm unsure but I would like to think it'd be somewhere around sixty percent, seventy percent?

00:30:59: So two hundred fourty percent increase on what we spend fixed cost yes And how many years have you been here?

00:31:04: almost three?

00:31:05: Three

00:31:05: years

00:31:05: Okay cool okay so we are almost

00:31:08: doubling every year.

00:31:09: We're increasing by eighty per cent a year.

00:31:10: basically Commission businesses can look incredibly healthy on revenue and still have brutal cash flow.

00:31:19: How do you manage that tension?

00:31:20: for me?

00:31:21: I mean, the question just says how did he managed attention?

00:31:24: but really how'd you let me sleep at night?

00:31:26: yeah um so Me knew had a conversation very early days And i was like this is the best business model in the world.

00:31:33: it's incredible.

00:31:34: You would get brokers in we train them up And then they get paid and we're overheads are low.

00:31:39: But what people don't understand is that to bring someone in, to train them visas health care stick on the floor data everything goes with it.

00:31:47: there's a huge investment.

00:31:48: yeah so We give this investment out.

00:31:51: and let us say if you have a couple of deals at home for months There has been three month transfer period or upto three months because I'm always to mortgage.

00:31:58: So we can be our pocket six months before seeing

00:32:01: any return

00:32:03: And with Off-Planet can be six to nine months before we get paid on it, depending upon the payment profile.

00:32:07: So yeah... The front end looks like a fantastic business role but at the back ends you have to service this for large portion of your income.

00:32:19: How do I do that?

00:32:19: We make quite accurate forecasts and sort of nailed down now between myself in accounts team which is good.

00:32:26: Yeah, managing cash flow for us is.

00:32:28: we look at what our commit spend's going to be.

00:32:30: We anticipate what our revenue was due to be over the few months and then we obviously know what's coming in.

00:32:35: but we did a three-month previous or six month previous.

00:32:40: so that's kind of how we manage it.

00:32:41: there were points at start where like probably you know

00:32:45: too much

00:32:46: just living day today maybe say no I agreed whereas now even just look at the way that we've handled a conflict, We invested through it because our cash flow balance sheet is strong.

00:32:55: Because of the way they were operating in.

00:32:58: But other start friend.

00:32:59: you know for this particular business model any company That's running a six month lag on payments but people are paid for everything that goes into.

00:33:06: It's risking.

00:33:07: was

00:33:08: there something for anyone opening up business now especially realistic businesses Like, you know not to put anyone off it but people think is like... People do thing.

00:33:15: Oh!

00:33:15: You just get an office and then hire these people who make money on them.

00:33:17: Do deals

00:33:18: yet paid?

00:33:18: Someone

00:33:19: comes in..you're gonna spend if your a good company And want things the right way.

00:33:23: You've had take an office or portal packages Which are by-the-way full length commitments, twelve months minimum.

00:33:29: Then when they start you need visas, health care which by law you have to pay for And now you'll be paying for portals on, and then they do a deal.

00:33:42: And it can be three months for them to get paid on that deal which means you don't.

00:33:45: It could be six months in a whole until people earn new money.

00:33:51: And remember,

00:33:52: all these brokers.

00:33:52: not everyone succeeds?

00:33:53: Of course no one succeeds.

00:33:55: so it is something just to keep in mind that you know.

00:33:57: make sure you have got that.

00:33:58: yeah but luckily for me I opened the company Just Coming Out of Covid which meant You Know our office.

00:34:05: we renewed i think was last year or Something That Was like you know sixteen Thousand Square feet For Like Seven Hundred K yes and Which Is You Know At That Risk?

00:34:12: So In The Day There's A Bargain But there

00:34:13: wasn't any barging at the time.

00:34:18: And so one of the things that also benefits our cash flow is it we have such a strong leasing department Because he gets paid on the day

00:34:24: or at least in team this month.

00:34:26: I didn't know this but I think Neil said yesterday should do five

00:34:29: million.

00:34:30: five million Already on course for it.

00:34:32: That's insane.

00:34:33: Yeah, and we're already over four and it's uh the twenty-fifth of September.

00:34:36: yeah.

00:34:37: So what?

00:34:38: It's gonna hit fire.

00:34:39: This is this is what it's going to do.

00:34:40: But what does it means?

00:34:41: its five million of cash flows straight into the company today.

00:34:44: So, you know that keeps a lot of the things running.

00:34:46: and then when obviously there's sales deals complete.

00:34:49: The off plan deal is complete as the cherry on top right?

00:34:52: This month has been much off-plan in leasing because we do let our lease and broker sell off plan.

00:34:57: Yeah We've done two deals Two

00:34:58: deals and off plan

00:34:58: Two deals.

00:35:00: certain months where it was really strong launches There's an opportunity for guys to sell off plans?

00:35:06: No

00:35:06: but I'm wanting to work out.

00:35:07: Is that five million?

00:35:08: basically?

00:35:08: purely You know

00:35:10: this will be record pure leasing deals For this month.

00:35:14: Awesome.

00:35:14: It's phenomenal.

00:35:17: Where do operations and finance pull against each other?

00:35:20: And how do you sit in the middle as a person who does both?

00:35:24: So basically, How Do I Fight With The Accountants Team?

00:35:27: Yes!

00:35:27: And How Do You Make it All Work?

00:35:28: yes so This is funny because i actually prefer this role where you're doing both sides.

00:35:34: Yeah Because if

00:35:35: get to see Both To See

00:35:36: Both You Understand Where Both Are At Which In Your Gut Really What Decision Is Gonna Be Made?

00:35:42: A Lot Of Companies Have a finance director or whatever it is and an operations director.

00:35:48: So, in the KPI differently one's taught looking at bottom line- Save money?

00:35:51: And then other ones like I need to invest and spend to get better.

00:35:54: so again It goes back to cost of value Like what... What if this gonna cost us?

00:36:00: and how much do i need To invest there?

00:36:01: but what can i get out Of?

00:36:02: here was going add to my bottom line.

00:36:04: Yeah yeah If everyone just looked At The world about saving Money Then you don't Get to enjoy it right

00:36:10: Correct?

00:36:10: Yes yes have I came to you with over the past three years that you've went, i don't think we should do this and it's paid off.

00:36:18: And then flip on another way.

00:36:19: is there anything that i've come to you at instead?

00:36:22: You know what she'd do.

00:36:22: that and its not paid of one

00:36:24: other ones as how he operate our moving up brackets of commissions.

00:36:29: You know, that was to me.

00:36:30: I was like oh what's going on?

00:36:31: because it just means more people stay higher.

00:36:33: but the reward is.

00:36:35: we've got so many brokers who are happy here and new people joining with our commission which way works have performed better as they're in an environment rewarding them than before.

00:36:47: let us not say at start it wasn't rewarding anymore now.

00:36:51: So for a business owner watching this right I increase the amount that they get paid, which means our gross income dropped.

00:36:59: But then again because we're getting more payed and performed better... Cooperate

00:37:04: margin drops a little bit but generate revenue.

00:37:06: so profit is higher in monetary terms ultimately.

00:37:10: Economies of scale isn't it?

00:37:12: And this what too many brokerages have gone wrong.

00:37:15: You know what i mean.

00:37:15: They start thinking about like oh yeah no i only want one hundred brokers and all has to be perfect.

00:37:20: It's never gonna happen If you can go with volume.

00:37:24: Yeah, which?

00:37:24: listen.

00:37:24: I'm never gonna kid anyone on like.

00:37:26: i want to have a lot of brokers yeah But I want to change a lot lives.

00:37:29: It's not about just us selling the most properties.

00:37:31: it's not About Us being The best or the biggest you know?

00:37:33: I also Want To Change the Most Lifes and that is Not Something That Cures About What's in the Bank.

00:37:37: yep That'S Just A by-product Of it Definitely.

00:37:40: but yeah that would be to me.

00:37:42: at the time I was a bit

00:37:43: okay

00:37:43: On the fence.

00:37:44: who had Been what Eighteen Months ago?

00:37:46: yeah, yeah, twenty months ago?

00:37:48: um but yeah There Was A cost element but there with the value of it was You Know

00:37:52: Paid off Paid

00:37:53: Off

00:37:53: And then what about, is there anything over the past three years that I've fucked up on?

00:37:58: and you went oh god this was going to happen or?

00:38:01: You know he took a pun.

00:38:01: it didn't work out.

00:38:03: Yeah!

00:38:03: This isn't just you.

00:38:05: we collectively made decision but sometimes we have hired someone been solved the dream yeah...and taken the pun But maybe not being all in on that person.

00:38:16: There's a few frogs to find your prints, right?

00:38:19: Yes you do.

00:38:20: Sometimes I get it right sometimes i have...I will be honest over the years there was probably one year that just make a big booboo on.

00:38:26: yeah

00:38:26: Your strike rate is much better now!

00:38:28: I feel like uh The last few ones have been actually under money so we'll let ya off.

00:38:31: um

00:38:32: If we removed half of our management team tomorrow would performance actually drop?

00:38:38: So I'd love to see and just be like no because We're the best and we can do all this out.

00:38:41: but the reality Is Of course It Would Because Our structure is flat.

00:38:44: You Know We Have Um, enough directors and managers on the floor to deal with... With the brokers that we have.

00:38:51: And deal with them efficiently and give them support they need.

00:38:54: so if you said every sales broker now is gonna ha- Every Sales Director's going to have a hundred brokers or one hundred fifty brokers like what a disservice would be for the brokers who won?

00:39:05: Yeah!

00:39:06: ...and to the Managers You're setting him up to fail.

00:39:08: They are not going to support these guys in any way it'd required.

00:39:13: So yeah I think I think that's a testament to our business model and the way it was set up though, right?

00:39:18: Because if you could take half your management team out of their businesses and still function there is something wrong.

00:39:24: You've definitely got

00:39:25: it wrong.

00:39:25: Yeah That's very good point.

00:39:27: Um...you come from different kind of side.

00:39:29: Almost everyone in our business has been in Dubai Real Estate And you are probably the only person i think that has slotted into Our Management Team who have never operated in Dubai real estate at any other company Which There not problem with it.

00:39:45: If someone else took our commission, or tools are a way of working and try to replicate it.

00:39:52: Do you think they could do?

00:39:55: No no the reason why one is You need a vision.

00:40:00: okay your vision was I'm gonna make this The Google of real estate.

00:40:03: how many people actually genuinely say that statement And believe it?

00:40:07: you know there must be A small percentage Of People That Will Think That Way Also as well just the experience that lies within the management team.

00:40:15: Everyone's worked in some real estate or large companies, gone through recessions.

00:40:19: Gone through difficult times and they know how to manage it and get through it.

00:40:22: You know It's easy to open up a real-estate company when the time is booming And you just sell a few properties but sustain over years and grow it Through a COVID through The conflict around this year.

00:40:36: I don't think there are many people out There that have the ability on their neck To do that.

00:40:41: That's my view.

00:40:44: If it was, if as easy is that more people would be doing.

00:40:46: I

00:40:47: always wonder why don't they just open companies and do exactly what we did?

00:40:50: Yeah

00:40:51: But i think That It takes a certain kind of Person And team

00:40:56: Yep

00:40:57: To mean What We Do.

00:40:59: yeah

00:40:59: you know what I Mean like yep Like when When I come around to You guys I'm like everyone.

00:41:03: Remember We'd do this for them.

00:41:04: No one's sitting there Going like yeah we'll do This For Them.

00:41:06: Its like yeah!

00:41:08: We all drink the Kool-Aid Where As I Think Some Other Companies.

00:41:11: They want to be us, and they want to care.

00:41:14: But not enough or it seems that not enough because obviously I put everything we've ever done online.

00:41:20: everyone could copy It.

00:41:21: Everyone can see.

00:41:22: Yeah Do you know as well?

00:41:23: one of the things This is a good one for You.

00:41:26: One thing people don't understand Is how in touch with your brokers And their work.

00:41:32: You know, it's very easy when you're successful and maybe...you wouldn't spend as much time in your business.

00:41:59: on the fact that they lose touch with one their identity, but to the people who actually are working in you know... On The Floor.

00:42:06: I want say something because i've been doing lots of podcasts recently and People like to pin all the managers & company owners against each other And listen..I'm the first one To love a fight & war With these companies.

00:42:18: Some people have paved way for us In Dubai Real Estate.

00:42:20: Many Of These Company Owners Before I was even You Know..I would be twelve years old When They Opened Their Company.

00:42:25: You Know...Fifteen Years Old gained a massive amount of success and they deserve to do whatever they want.

00:42:32: They shouldn't have to be in the office every single day, they should go on as many holidays that you want spend time with their families.

00:42:38: it's just a shame.

00:42:40: right now I exist Yes.

00:42:42: And I mean that in the nicest way, like it's not me talking from an ego but NPR... ...I am going to talk about how i'm in office every day.. Yeah?

00:42:48: ..i Am in touch with The Brokers!

00:42:50: I AM getting my hands dirty every moment possible and the narrative To Brokers, brokers don't care That.

00:42:55: you've spent however many years building a successful business and then now You deserve It.

00:43:00: yeah because the person that starts at your company two weeks ago

00:43:02: is their time

00:43:03: Is their Time Now.

00:43:04: where are

00:43:04: YOU?!

00:43:05: So I just wanted to put that out there because listen, the first person fight with everyone online and they love it.

00:43:10: You know what?

00:43:12: But some people should be given their flowers.

00:43:14: many companies are but at end of day... And everybody

00:43:17: has an opinion right on how is their life They want.

00:43:20: do you know?

00:43:21: operate how they want?

00:43:22: but for your in office eight o'clock every morning It's a catch up management team in the mornin then talking about brokers find out whats going.

00:43:29: so still in meetings we have developers probably finding them better.

00:43:33: You're not out of touch, you know exactly what's going on.

00:43:37: And I think that was a real testament to you and just as probably why the company's flourished so much is like... ...you've not stagnated or took your eye off the ball.

00:43:44: We

00:43:45: are now getting complacent.

00:43:46: Yes Final question Rick

00:43:48: Go for it.

00:43:49: When all this said and done What do want people say?

00:43:52: waiting quotes stood for?

00:43:53: The Broker?

00:43:58: Look That Was Your.

00:43:59: That was your vision right at the start, but like I don't think we've lost that at all.

00:44:02: And every decision you make is to try and make it best for these

00:44:04: guys.".

00:44:06: Going back to a point about... You want to change as many people's lives possible?

00:44:10: Hundreds of people are in there whose lives have been completely changed for the better.

00:44:15: We can't lose sight of those things because they're what needs to be remembered for us.

00:44:18: People will join us when we give them every chance to change their life.

00:44:23: so this has got to happen!

00:44:26: That's what we want the company to, you know be remembered for.

00:44:29: Do you think in the market right now?

00:44:30: You know?

00:44:31: What would you think of weight and Coise?

00:44:33: do you thing they'd think I had this brother brokers?

00:44:34: do you think that so?

00:44:35: sentiment in the Market

00:44:36: and brokers talk right.

00:44:38: hmm So you hear it all the time even if your ever towards my opinion or not.

00:44:43: Yeah, yeah.

00:44:43: here constantly like um, you Know how well we look after our brokers.

00:44:47: How will their?

00:44:48: Renumerated mm-hmm Um with a the perks at least have you know?

00:44:53: saw there was a bit sticked some coins and stuff getting put online over the last few days, and for us it could have just been like okay well we're not paying because its not contractually obliged but you know.

00:45:05: We've hoarded that money with ring fenced it.

00:45:07: And we pay out back to everyone.

00:45:09: yes maybe all in this same month they should get it?

00:45:12: But everybody's going to be getting every penny of their over a six months or twelve-month period depending if your associate director how can't we be someone for the broker when go that far?

00:45:25: give everything to them that they're obligated to have.

00:45:27: Yeah, I agree.

00:45:28: Rick?

00:45:29: That's the last question there.

00:45:30: this has been massively enjoyable and also definitely an insight into you know the smartest guy in our company.

00:45:37: The guy who makes it all happen in the background stops me from making silly decisions And at the same time sometimes encourages my silly decision.

00:45:46: Yep

00:45:47: look we need to let you fly right

00:45:48: yeah but really appreciate.